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Additions to Orion Warthen

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Additions to Orion Warthen

Post by Orion Warthen on 8/6/2017, 07:45

I have a few requests/questions about things I'd like to add to my character:

1. I want to raise his stats a bit. More can be explained on this later but basically the focus is on intelligence, with trained agility and trained or above average strength. However that's very hard to do, I wanted at least 15 intelligence but that won't work with the score I have right now. I have a backstory in the works for now and can give a general overview if needed.

2. Special technique:
Orion invented another method of taking down titans then just slashing at them from behind. Because titans are stupid he can actually head straight at them and go through the mouth and then slice them from there, since they vaporize there's no need to worry about getting trapped inside. This does of course require that they actually get inside in time and to the back of the throat.

3. Titan bombs: Combustable devices with an arrow like end that can be stuck inside of a titans neck (or from inside the throat) which will explode after a time or on impact if a detonator is set on the end. This allows him to take them out without having to use immense strength to do so and fits with his intelligence focus.
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Orion Warthen

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Strength: 6
Agility: 7
Intellect: 15

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Re: Additions to Orion Warthen

Post by Herdir on 8/6/2017, 15:09

Ok, so:

1. There is nothing inherently against this, so feel free to write the increased stats on the character, alongside with a more elaborate explanation (most likely in the form of saying which bit of the backstory deals with each particular stat bit). Everything will be judged alongside the character application once it is posted.

2. While it does sound awesome, and I might allow it for the heck of it, attacking from the inside is actually considerably less efficient and much more risky. The risk part is obvious: if your titan is just a tad bit faster than the normal, you're dead; besides they take like a minute or so to evaporate, still trapping you in for that (admittedly short) amount of time. The efficiency part is more relevant, though: between the inside of the neck and the nape is the spine, which is bone tissue, making it much harder to go through than the flesh on the back.

Due to this, normal swords or brute force methods are straight out of question. The bombs might be able to work, but it would make them have to be elongated (to get the charge past the spine, by impaling to the side) to at least half a metre if not more, with the charge near the tip. I'll see what Alan has to say about this (the physics part), and what Cornix has to say about it (the anatomy part).

3. As said above, they would have to be more like 0,5-1 metre long spears, which allows for much fewer to be carried around. On the plus side though, the inner flesh of the titan is likely much less though than the exterior one, and they would indeed be easy to get in, as long as the bones are avoided.

On Second Thought: The spear body would be protected by the titan's own flesh, making the damage to the shaft minimal. Thus, only the speartip would have to be changed. Alan's help is requested in regards to how true this statement is.

Fun fact: see Crazy Ideas Part II, where we discuss the possibility of literal arrows (well, crossbow bolts) with explosives.


I hope what I said makes sense, and let's see what the experts in each field have to say about it.
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Herdir

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Re: Additions to Orion Warthen

Post by Orion Warthen on 8/6/2017, 19:23

1. Got it. Thank you.
2. That's understandable, the idea was to cut through the neck and go through the hole, or back out the mouth/throat. Although I thought they were already going through bone? Since the spine is right at the nape anyway, but then again that's on humans.

I guess it depends most on the type of explosive used. But I also don't know what they have at present as far as explosives go.


Ahh, cool. Someone beat me to it then.

Thanks! I'll be waiting for the answers as I work on the rest of my bio.
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Orion Warthen

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Re: Additions to Orion Warthen

Post by Alan Katlewande on 9/6/2017, 13:55

Hey there!
First of all, let me say that I absolutely loved your bio. It'll be great to see you character in action.

Let's get the elephant out of the way, and answer some questions Very Happy
Regarding titan bombs - We have two things to discuss - the explosive material, and how titans actually die.
As I stated in 'Crazy Ideas Part II', gunpowder seems like the most likely candidate for explosive material in this universe. It is relatively inefficient weight-to-explosion wise.
But can enough of it get through titan skin?
Sorry to say the answer seems like a 'no'. I couldn't find exactly how tough human skin is (For comparison to titan skin, which should be thicker), with estimates being that we cane take 100 PSI until we are pierced. However, we also know that humans can take explosions as strong as ones caused by grenades (Looking at you, grenade-fallers), with explosions of PSI as low as 3000 PSI, and still not have their skin ran-through. In fact, some grenade-fallers even survived! Crazy!
Point being - human skin is tough as shit. Explosions wouldn't get through it easily, and considering we're talking about titan skin and way less developed explosives, there's no way explosions could really get through titan skin.

Still, the question arises - how do titans die? If you could pierce a titan with a javelin, so the exploding tip would be close to their nape area, could it kill them?
That depends. If it's a part that needs to be ripped out of place or disconnected, there's no way a small explosion could do that. However, if it's a soft internal organ, that just needs to be jumbled up, damaged internally or what not, the answer is an easy 'Yes'.

All in all, because there are so many uncertainties concerning this, I guess it's up to us.
I think the idea sounds cool as hell, so I'd love to see it happen. Who cares about physics?
If we still want to stick to realism, it would require the titan to be pierced so the tip of the javelin is very close/directly in the nape , and titan innards to be squishy and susceptible to damage.

Don't even get me started on powered boots, though. That shit's impossible Very Happy

That's the end of my physics rambling. Time for some queries of my own!
Orion. Your character is cool as hell, and I think maybe he and Alan could be intellectual 'rivals'. He represents in many ways what Alan wants to be, and that could make Alan super jealous Very Happy
Since they are the same age, how would you feel about them having a bit of history together?
I am thinking that perhaps they were cadets together, with Orion taking the top of the class due to his previous training and genius-level intellect. That they didn't interact too much, with Alan thinking Orion was odd and jealous as hell of him, and Orion thinking that Alan was a snotty and wimpy soldier who just wanted to join the Military Police in order to escape his poor childhood.
I dunno. I just think that could be a pretty fun scenario to play out. The fact that they share so many similarities could make their rivalry all the better.
Of course, this is just silly-old-me talking. Don't feel pressured to turn the idea down if you don't like it or don't want to. That's completely fine.

Anyways, once again, welcome to the forum! Can't wait to RP with you!

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Alan Katlewande

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Re: Additions to Orion Warthen

Post by Herdir on 9/6/2017, 15:49

As a quick answer to what Alan was saying about titan flesh and how much realism should not deter us: I do agree. That being said, a consultation with real physics will still be mandatory, just so that we knowingly ignore whatever we ignore.

As such: About the explosive: HE Rounds are a thing in canon (and have been seen blowing titan limbs off), so the same explosive can be used for the javelin tip. Then, as a minor spoiler/spoiler free explanation, due to why titans die when napes are cut (consult wiki at your own risk if you want to know; warning: intense spoilers), there should be no difference between heavily damaging and removing the interior of the napes.

Also about the vertebrae: they don't cut those, actually. The weakspot is the little bit of flesh right on those vertebrae. Minor Spoiler: Just look at how Eren is while inside his titan and you'll get why rather quickly.


To Alan: assuming an explosive strong enough to damage the inner flesh of titans (let's assume it roughly equal to human flesh), would the javelin body (steel) remain intact/nearly intact?



Now, about attacking from the inside:

Using the javelins, it will certainly work.

With blades: technically, cutting from the inside around the vertebrae is not impossible. The problem is the lack of space, though, as it won't allow any form of strength to be put into the blades, leaving two options:
1. Stabbing: It COULD work, but it would have to hit the sweetspot much more accurately than traditional techniques, and from a way worse position too. (Minor spoiler: the actual weakspot of titans is only about 4-5 cm thick, and could be hit with a single blade. The reason two are used in canon is to make the attacked area much wider, allowing for more error space in regards to what is cut.)

2. Cutting with the momentum of going in: Should work, but requires really good timing and accuracy on the move, all while being busy to not be eaten in the process.

In all, using blades to kill should be doable, but much harder than any other method. As such, it should remain as only an emergency fallback technique.


(Btw, the idea is mostly approved, it's just the details that are in discussion)
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Herdir

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Re: Additions to Orion Warthen

Post by Orion Warthen on 9/6/2017, 19:54

(Crap, I lost my entire post)

To Alan: (about storyline)
I would very much like to try that out! I think it'd be pretty interesting to have an intellectual rival in here. And the history of being fellow cadets but not actually knowing each other would make it even better.

To Alan and Herdir: (About explosive javelins)

Ok so if the shaft is steel and can be reattached to more explosive tips then that issue is out of the way. We could make the tips function like HE shrapnel grenades, using the end (which would have to be thin enough to explode but tough enough to cut through titan skin, which should be possible). It'd probably have to be reletively large to really work well, so maybe four and a half inches long (?) and with a kind of long sharpened triangular shape so it can be filled with enough of whatever HE is. It wouldn't look much like a real spear, but it only has to pierce the titan skin, not meant for stabbing humans. Although there is a knife like that I think, just without the explosive.

To Herdir: (about the technique)
Ok so using javelins if we can officially get that to work would also be able to be used here. That's certainly an upside.

Hmm, maybe I should drop it for his bio. It's just such a very rare occasion that this would be used. It might work with a serrated spear with a broad blade, stick it past the spine then twist it, but it's just not likely enough to work for any normal soldier. It'd need someone really skilled or in seriously desperate circumstances. So I'll probably only use it IC if the need ever shows itself since it's really more of something that needs to be "on the spot" or improvised technique, not so much a truly battle functional one.


Alright, so thank you to you both! I look forward to more from here since it's already pretty interesting just from what I've seen so far.
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Re: Additions to Orion Warthen

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